-[Kenia] Just ahead on "Black Issues Forum", the pandemic is slowly making its way in the rear view, but what impact has it left in its wake?

The great resignation and an end to the eviction moratorium could spin North Carolinians into a financial storm, and how the upcoming local election votes play a large role in it all, next.

[upbeat music] ♪ Welcome to "Black Issues Forum".

I'm Kenia Thompson in for Deborah Holt Noel.

Local elections are just a week away, and your vote in the primaries could influence major decisions later this year.

But first, the state of North Carolina is experiencing the largest rate of inflation we've seen since 1982, rising over 7.9% over the last 12 months.

As we emerge from the pandemic, its lasting effects are beginning to plague families statewide, causing potential impact on lifestyle behaviors.

And with the war in Ukraine as a threat of national security some are stressing the importance of greater local control for sustainability all around.

Today's panelists will help us understand some of the root causes and what, if any, solutions there are.

We welcome Senator Natalie Murdock of Durham, political analyst Steve Rao, and author of "The Debt Detox", Kimberly Winborne.

Thank you all so much for being here.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- Thank you, pleasure.

Pleasure to be here.

- Yeah, so great to have you.

So Senator Murdock and Steve, as we look at the war in Ukraine, how has that impacted us locally, especially when you consider the amount of money the country has sent over in aid?

- It really has.

And first, I just want to let all the people of Ukraine, those who may have already fled the country and who are here with us now, we are praying for you.

We really, really want this senseless violence to stop, but it has had a direct impact on the global economy, including right here in North Carolina.

It's impacted our supply chain.

Whenever you have a disruption from such a large country, it's gonna impact your energy prices.

It's gonna impact groceries at the store that we're already going up.

And in regards to our fuel prices, it's really a reminder that we need to become more self-reliant here in America.

We really, really need to become less dependent, and hopefully phase out our dependency on foreign fossil fuels.

And this is a perfect example of why the more self-sufficient we are, we will not be as sensitive to such global pressures that we're feeling right now.

- Yeah.

Steve, anything to add?

- Oh yeah.

Well, just to follow up on that, first of all, as Senator Murdock said, we pray for the people of Ukraine.

And there's about 21,000 Ukrainians in North Carolina.

Recently, I interviewed one at UNC Chapel Hill.

PhD student named Dr. Misha Shvets, who's working on innovation on AI for neural networks.

And he came from Dnipro, which is actually the rocket science capital of Russia, was the rocket science capital.

So the Ukrainians are doing so much for innovation locally in our economy.

But what I'll say first of all, is that inflation, which we're really feeling today at an all time high, affects everybody, unlike unemployment.

Unemployment affects a few percentages of our society, our country, our state, but everybody pays the price of inflation.

Someone making $120,000 a year is paying the same for gas as someone that's making 40,000 a year.

And so this means less savings, less investment in healthcare, less budgets for just basic cost of living.

And it's just really, really affecting the people of North Carolina.

So hopefully we can do something in the general assembly to continue to maybe reduce taxes or relief or some kind of stimulus efforts.

The final point I will make, and I think Senator Murdock did an excellent job talking about it, is that this is a really, really good example of how we need a really stronger energy independent strategy in the United States of America.

Today Russia sells about 25% of Europe's oil, but we forget that the fossil fuel is oil, coal, and natural gas.

And so what this means is that we have to increase production, not only in the United States, but we have to have a production strategy where we're increasing fossil fuels, but in the long term, a transition to renewable energy.

But what that also means is that we in the foreign policy arena, it's important to have a relationship with Iran, because Iran can then produce more oil.

It's important to break bread with Mohammed bin Salman from Saudi Arabia, who's gonna be there for probably another 40 years.

They can produce more oil.

And if we do that, we can have more oil.

When President Ford was in the White House, he was able to reduce the speed limit to 55 miles an hour and actually have more fuel efficient cars.

And the US was able to do stuff during the oil crisis of the seventies.

So I think that's a very important point.

- Thank you, Steve.

As we see many of the pandemic restrictions lift, what many of us don't realize is that much of the aid and leniencies are lifting as well.

Kimberly, with the end of the eviction moratorium, what is happening to those who can no longer afford their rent?

Well, unfortunately across the board, those who cannot afford their homes any longer, as well as the landlords who are taking a hit as a result of the crisis, it's across the board just detrimental to very many homes and very many families.

Like I was saying, the landlords are seeing where they don't have as much occupancy because of the moratorium.

While it helped, it also in the long haul, because we don't have some of those resources that are returning, the occupancy.

It affects the housing market.

If 97% of about, approximately 97% of homes are not, are, I'm sorry, is if 97% of the homes are filled, then we have a lack of homes that are available.

Where we all know supply and demand, then the prices go up.

And so it's getting to be a situation, or it is a situation, that is really hard for many people.

Those who are getting evicted, we're having situations of course, of more homelessness and scare of homelessness, which is not a situation that anybody wants to be in.

One of the things, the tips, or solutions, is people, I think the administration is really wanting us to focus on it at the citywide and statewide level.

If people, the Biden administration is wanting people to consider multiple family housing.

But for many of us, that is not something that we desire.

And so that puts us in a bind as well, but it is something to consider and something that we may have to do.

So it's tough across the board for families, for landlords.

While when you get evicted, you don't immediately leave the home.

You go through paperwork, you go through having to go to court.

It's so many things.

That impact the family because maybe you have to take off work.

Maybe you don't have a job or that job doesn't supply the income necessary in order to stay where you are.

So there's so many factors, Kenya, - Yeah.

- to that question that it layers it and it continues to be a problem for families here in North Carolina, as well as abroad.

- Well, let's talk a little bit more about some of the problems.

Research has shown that the median net worth of black families is almost eight times less than the majority.

Would you say that black families have felt the impact of the pandemic more?

Or does this just boil down to a greater issue of financial literacy in our community?

- Oh, I absolutely believe that the black family has felt it more, because prior to the pandemic the black family was already suffering, already in an economic downturn, they're already below the curve I'll say when it comes to income, when it comes to job opportunities, when it comes to diversification issues.

And so as a result, this definitely is a little bit harder on the black family than many other demographics.

And so I look forward to some level of a resolution and I love this conversation because it helps people to understand the facts and not to speculate.

The numbers tell us, historically, that the black family is suffering.

And I would just love to be able to produce a solution, like Steve said, in the general assembly, in other areas, in order to be able to kind of fill this gap that continues to linger.

- Thank you, Kimberly.

Financial stability has been the American dream for as long as we can remember.

- Yeah.

- But shockingly a reported 4 million Americans quit their job in 2021 with the black women holding the greatest number of those leaving their jobs, giving us one of the biggest surges of entrepreneurship we've ever seen.

So, Kimberly, why would you say black women in particular have left their jobs and careers in such disproportionate numbers?

- Entrepreneurship.

They're seeing that there's a way to create a lane for themselves.

They're seeing that statistically more black women are being successful at starting new businesses and thriving.

And they're tired of being beat up and beat down and not receiving the value for their worth.

You can have someone the same qualifications, or less, but of a different hue, that actually gets a better opportunity which is unfortunate.

And so they're tired of that story and they're ready to create their own story.

And so I believe because of that, many are a part of that great resignation in order to gain opportunities that they can create for themselves.

That is why we're seeing that great resignation of black women astronomically.

- Yeah, no, I understand.

So as we see a rise in entrepreneurship, Steve, how would you say, how great has that impact been on black business specifically?

- Well, I think in terms of the impact, it's a good thing that we see more black women becoming entrepreneurs.

I mean, I think entrepreneurs have independence, financial freedom, and they create jobs.

We often forget that SAS, Cree, Red hat we're small companies that spun out of a university and today employ 15, 20,000 people around the world and thousands in North Carolina.

But I think the fact of the matter is, it's not just creating the business.

Secretary of State Marshall recently said in a speech I was attending that more new business have been created in the last two years during COVID, but it's the money and the resources and the capital that we give to those businesses.

So the first point I'll make is during the original part of the pandemic, when we were doing the PPP loans, there's 2.6 million black, small, disadvantaged businesses, and 2.1 million didn't have employees.

But they were small businesses, so they didn't get the loans.

And then they're not getting the venture capital and the bridge loans.

So, the most important thing is that, if we're gonna make these black entrepreneurs successful, we have to make sure that they're at the equal level playing field of being able to get the money they need, the resources they need, to support their growth and their ideas and create more jobs for our state.

- Great points, Steve.

So, Senator Murdock, could you elaborate a little bit more about that?

Are black businesses getting the support and access they need state side to thrive successfully?

- Yes, there is so much more support we can provide to black businesses, and I was a part of that movement before the great resignation in 2017.

I jumped out on my own.

I was in state government for some years, so I've been self-employed since 2017.

To Steve Rao's point, sole proprietor.

I have assistance when I can afford them.

Quite frankly, sometimes I'm unable to.

So, I really, really understand the need to support our black businesses.

I have even sacrificed having health insurance to make payroll.

So there are times where things get really tight far before we entered this pandemic.

My grandfather had a construction company, and during those winter months they really sacrificed.

When those construction and concrete contracts are pretty hard to come by.

So at the state level, want to specifically lift up the name of Senator Gladys Robinson.

She is a fierce and phenomenal advocate for minority businesses.

For the first round of COVID we wanted to give millions of dollars to the Institute, which was founded and based in Durham, North Carolina.

They assist minority businesses all over the state.

In the final budget we were able to provide funding to Golden LEAF to provide millions of dollars to those minority businesses.

But as the panelists have mentioned, nationally we have got to do a better job.

Not only did we have an issue with PPP, there were financial institutions where minority businesses were making their deposits and doing their payroll and then when the PPP loans opened up, these very well known large financial institutions that I will not name, they were not providing them with the funding and it actually caused a lot of black businesses to remove those deposits and go to black businesses.

You did see companies like PayPal and Target, Square, really step up to the plate.

And we have to continue to see more of that.

We need to do more at the state level.

But I am glad that in this new political space that we're in currently, you do see overwhelming unprecedented support for black businesses.

And it's also up to us locally.

I was supporting some local black businesses in the Durham area this week, we'll be doin' the same this weekend.

We also have to do our part and support them, but.

- I think it's been a long time coming, I'm a millennial.

We are a part of a generation where we saw our baby boomer parents work for 20, 30 years for the same employer and may not have felt that they were really appreciated.

And I think you just will see a trend of workers that really wanna be fulfilled.

COVID allowed folks to really sit back and reflect on their value and their worth.

So a part of the great resignation is people want more.

They wanna be with their families.

They love that flexibility.

They like working from home.

So I think it's just the beginning, but do wanna add we're also seeing a boomerang effect where some folks have found that entrepreneurship is not for them.

So you actually are seeing a lot of folks starting at February, March this year that are actually going back to the jobs that they previous had as well.

So seeing a little bit of everything, but entrepreneurship especially for black women will continue to be on the rise.

- Yeah.

Talk a little bit more about the job opportunities, so you mentioned entrepreneurship is not for everyone.

- Yes.

- So what is the outlook on the job landscape here locally?

- Thank you so much.

And was talking with someone earlier this week about the digital divide.

We really need to continue to expand broadband access to rural areas, to black communities.

Another discrepancy we have as with black households because there's so many opportunities work from home.

You can work for huge companies like Google and Apple and Twitter from your home, but that means that you really, really need to have access to very quality high-speed internet, but COVID has changed the landscape of what work looks like.

You're seeing a lot of jobs that are more flexible.

You're working with global teams purely on Microsoft Teams and Zoom.

So as we do see those trends changing, a lot of folks are going back to community college getting more certifications so that they can transition into other jobs.

Because again, they had that time to reflect and say is this what I really, really wanna do?

So you see a lot of folks that are reimagining their futures and their careers.

So it's a challenging time, but very, very exciting time.

I'm also seeing young students that are changing their majors to say, maybe I wanna go into another industry.

There's a college student I know who's launching a business a medi spa with one of their colleagues that's in the sciences.

So a lot of different industries that are emerging and people are taking advantage of all of them because it's in a market where employees can shop around.

It's the employers that have to step up to the plate - For sure.

- To be more competitive.

- And that's a great point.

How is the financial competition looking like, are employers providing more financial stability for their employees?

- Well, I guess I can answer that.

I mean, you know, I think, well, first of all, I just want to, thanks Senator Murdoch for making some great points about, you know, the job opportunities.

I mean, I think that in an emerging tech space jobs are being created every day in new areas, like Smart Cities, IoT and the community colleges at Wake Tech.

I mean, they're having early career high school where people can get a STEM education and get college credit.

So wanted to thank Dr. Raws for that.

But I think the bottom line is that just the financial, you know, companies just have to start paying more for their employees.

I mean, the problem is that there's such a labor shortage.

People aren't willing to stay and they want to go for more money, but they also want to go for where they could have career advancement.

So sometimes it's not just about the money and this is gonna have to be a shift in company strategy where for many years they could just pay people what they want.

There was recently an article in the newspaper about a lady in the news an observer that was trying to live on 40,000 a year.

How do you survive on 35 to 40,000 a year to pay the gas, you know, 7.9% higher prices, groceries, where all of us are going up?

Even when I go on a grocery run, I give my wife the thing, she goes, I just told you to get five things and it's 60 bucks.

Right?

So anyway, to answer your question, I think we just have to make sure that management has to create a culture.

They have to make an investment in the people that are loyal to them, to work to them.

And in order to retain them, to keep them and give black businesses and black leaders a chance to advance and move up in companies.

I'd like to see more in the tech sector, right now only 3% of black Americans are in the tech sector.

We have to lift those up so they can create the jobs of the future.

- Thank you, Steve.

Thank you.

- If I could add to that- - Well, as registered voters across the state are gearing up to vote in the local elections, we're asking the question, what national issues are driving their decisions at the ballot box and what kinds of local leadership will that put in place?

We discussed earlier about the impact the pandemic and the war has had on our economy, Senator Murdoch, what impact will the economy have on the decisions local citizens will make next week at the polls?

- Yes.

I still think in the midst of all of the global conflict, you are saying the primary issue will be inflation.

People feel it.

We all feel it.

I feel it every time I go to the gas tank I feel it when my rent goes up, I am a renting Senator.

I pay over $1,300 for a one bedroom apartment in Durham, affordable housing, folks are struggling to find places to live, cost of groceries.

So those kitchen table issues will continue to be paramount, but national polling has showed us 50% of women have said that the possibility of Roe V Wade being overturned will make them vote this election cycle.

So I think when you're in a state like North Carolina where you are talking about razor thin margins, there are issues such as Roe V Wade that really, really can make the difference.

We knew it was coming, we didn't know exactly when that will be a huge factor and also folks' ability to find jobs and to feel stable and secure.

All of that will be a factor in upcoming elections and definitely kitchen table issues such as just having the ability to be able to live and to be prosperous.

And I'll end with national sentiments as well.

Unfortunately, for our down ballot candidates, you will be subjected to what's going on in Washington DC.

And for my party, Democrats really have to step it up and do more so that voters will continue to support us this fall.

- Yeah.

- In DC.

- Yes.

Yeah.

Good points.

Very good points.

Steve, there's some out there that don't see the importance of voting in the primaries, share with us, how important is it to get out there and vote?

- It is, well, first of all, elections have consequences.

We saw that in North Carolina in 2010 when things became very different in North Carolina, HB2, all these things happened when the Republicans led our general assembly and in 2016 when Donald Trump became president of our country, so it's so important to vote, your vote counts.

But the most important thing is that I believe that candidates are not projecting the issues that we need to really look at in terms of Our stance is on what we've talked about today, affordable housing, investments in education, investments in healthcare ,cause healthcare costs are rising, voting rights, and of course yes, abortion and the right to choose.

But when we look at the ads today on the TV screen, it's about really three things, guns, building walls, abortion, and I'm supported by Donald Trump.

And you have a Senator, Pat McCrory, a former governor, who has more experience to win this primary, is losing in the polls to someone who hasn't shown up to a debate.

That's just basically saying it's about guns.

I'm supported by Trump, and I want to build a wall.

So I think it's very important for people to understand the issues, and understand the candidate's stances on those issues, both at the federal level and the state level, and also an understanding of the national foreign policies like what we've talked about today.

Positions in Europe, NATO and Europe, we didn't talk about that, but there's been a lot of success with a unified Europe to help Ukraine.

So, if you support Donald Trump, are you supporting, once again, an isolationist foreign policy?

- Kimberly, the future of current issues and concerns, are those reflected in the candidates that we are choosing during the primary elections, do you believe?

- They should be.

They absolutely should be.

I think we all need to take the time to study the records of those who are out here wanting to earn our votes.

We need to take the time to study their records, see what they're about, and not just go based on a color, based on who smiles the biggest, but really the facts, the history, the data.

I think that is so essential and so important.

Especially when we bring up a lot of these issues that we're talking about.

Especially the economy, especially our votes and our rights and things of those nature.

Who is going to support the things that your core values speak to.

And it is so significant to really study our candidates.

- Very significant.

Senator Murdock, what are some of the local opportunities we have to hear more about some of the platforms and some, discussing the issues that are currently going on, before we make a decision?

- Yes, so many local opportunities, and particularly I've lived in the Triangle, the Triad, Western North Carolina, and also have ties to Wilmington.

So no matter where you live, there are opportunities to hear from your candidates locally.

There are tons of political action committees and other local groups, faith-based organizations that will have candidate forums and you need to really attend those.

And also, would be remiss, if I didn't mention the importance of our school boards.

We have seen a national strategy from the Republican Party to make more people, encourage them to run for school board as a result of COVID and masking.

And so, we've even seen that in Durham, this is the first time ever that we've had a coordinated local ballot of Republicans.

So, people really, really have to pay attention, but there are so many opportunities to get that information, especially nonpartisan ones.

The League of Women Voters, they always have that information.

There are other, WRAL, other media outlets, So many folks have questionnaires.

You can really, really get all the information about candidates that you want, as well as social media.

So it's really up to you to take it seriously and to get that education.

Because when you're talking about local races, such as mayor and school board, sheriff, your district attorneys, your judges, these are people that really, really impact your everyday life.

We, as we should, be up in arms with what's going on in the Supreme Court, but if you are not paying attention to your local district court judge, they see the vast majority of all the legal cases.

So, we really, really have to pay attention and make sure that we're at the table, because if not, there are candidates that will not listen to you if they don't see you showing up.

So it really, really is your duty to make sure that you're informed, because these are folks that impact your everyday life.

So people have to tune in.

- Indeed, Steve, final question for you.

These decisions that we make in the primary elections, how does that impact us later on in the general elections?

- Well, I think it's gonna be very, this is a very critical election for North Carolina and the United States.

I think we have to be prepared to win these primaries.

And then when we go to the ballot box in November, it's gonna be about, what do we wanna do to continue the direction of this country?

I think President Biden's low approval ratings are very concerning.

I think that he should actually be doing better in the polls, in my opinion.

Because he vaccinated the American people.

He got an infrastructure bill through.

He unified Europe to help Ukraine.

But the circumstances of the time and the uncertainty have gotten the normalcy of the American people, they're very, very uncertain of the future.

I wanna thank today's guest Senator Natalie Murdock, Steve Rao, and Kimberly Winborne.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

We invite you to engage with us on Twitter or Instagram using the hashtag, Black Issues Forum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum, or listen at any time on Apple iTunes, Spotify, or Google Podcasts.

For Black Issues Forum, I'm Kenya Thompson.

Thank you for watching.

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